Thank You Dr. McMillan for hosting a very informative, caring, heartfelt podcast for moving humanity forward with highly respected gentlmen in my humble opionion! And BTW, 1 dose of Paxloid killed my healthy companion. How we have gotten away from nature, simple, caring, community evolving systems to systems of consumerism ,destroy, greed is playing out right before our eyes on this living planet we have been asked to take care of.
An outstanding discussion.thank you. Have been digging deep to find ivermectin and antibiotics. Have also had to spend a lot of money to pay for them. I have had a prolonged x 6 weeks, cold, covid, URI. Finally went to GP, seen by a NP, recād doxycycline, improving. Unvaxxed. Autoimmune.
When you wrote "cold, covid, URI" did you mean that you had all three of these or did you mean that you had one of the three but not certain which one? Also, what did you mean when you wrote "Autoimmune"?
I am glad you are improving. It sounds like you have had a rough time.
Dr. Bossche's argument (0:29:20), asserting that under circumstances where a pathogen has reached its peak infectiousness potential, the only evolutionary development, per definition, is increased virulence, aligns with virology textbooks. However, these textbooks do not teach that there is an alternative course of action when the pathogen has reached its peak of infectiousness, and the host has exhausted its limits of resistance. The alternative course of development is immune tolerance.
Immune tolerance is as widespread defence strategy as resistance. Therefore, it does not make sense to exclude tolerizing strategies from potential evolutionary scenarios. However, it should be noted that the trade-off for increased mortality tolerance will be evident in some host fitness parameters such as fecundity, fertility, sterility, etc.
Something that makes me cautious and skeptical about Dr. Bossche's predictions is that he hasn't (to my knowledge) addressed the dramatic IgG4 class switch in people who were mRNA-vaccinated prior to infection. Understanding the cause and implications of that class switch could probably make any predictions much more accurate.
EDIT: As a layperson, I can't really understand the scientific arguments, but I look for "body language" for lack of a better description. Bossche's indifference to the IgG4 mystery is a sign to me that he might have tunnel vision.
Dr.Bossche addressed the issue of IgG4 class switch both in his book and in his articles. Reading his explanation about 2 different causes of this class switch, initial promotion and current disabling effect on SIR, and initial inhibition of APCās uptake of IgG4 opsonized immune complexes and later enhanced uptake will not make it easier for you to find the truth about increased virulence vs tolerance. However, reading his explanations may turn your cautious scepticism into vigilant criticism.
Only 2% of human DNA is made up of protein-coding genes. The remaining part codes for enzymes, modulates and moderates gene expression, while function of majority part of genome is unknown.
Endogenous viral elements (EVEs) form up to 10% of human genome. But to maintain cell integrity expression of EVEs are silenced. However, while EVEs translation potential is silenced, their regulatory role is not nullified.
There are several studies confirming SC2 RNA can be reverse-transcribed and integrated into human genome. There is no evidence that the SC2 viral elements shall be passed to successive generations in Mendelian manner. But one can hypothesize that long-Covid, for instance, is a manifestation of immune tolerance against the virus when the trade-off for acquired mortality tolerance is loss of mobility and mental clarity.
Dr.Bossche has been all in to no compromise on mortality tolerance. However, it is only natural to argue that in host-pathogen interaction compromise on mortality tolerance can be mutually beneficial. Self-centred gene is more evident than species-centred gene. Therefore, it should rather be asked ā what will be the fitness costs for acquired immune tolerance against SC2 in highly vaccinated? Since it is human population neocortex activation mimics fitness cost compensation within the specie, instead of settled in interspecies manner ā one does not have to be mobile to enjoy mobility; it is sufficient to have a vaccine certificate for enjoying mobility.
We need to stop calling these mRNA shots "vaccines". There never was a vaccine, there is still no vaccine and not one person has ever been vaccinated. These dangerous gene therapy injections were misrepresented and people were sadly misled. Now the clinicians are left to deal with the fall out and sadly many people have and will die needlessly. This is a human tragedy on an epic scale and the true pandemic.
Dr. Vanden Bossche has opined that what he is expecting will be more tragic than the side effects from the shots. If you don't mind me asking, what is your opinion in that regard?
As a virologist and expert in vaccine development and preclinical testing I agree with a lot of what Geert says. This is a grand experiment on a global scale. All the human intervention has done was prolong things and make them far worse. This virus will not behave as expected because of all the human intervention. We have put so much immune selection pressure on it and it will change in unpredictable ways. The injections have skewed the immune response away from what is proper to handle this virus. The injections have caused pathogenic priming, immune tolerance and worse immune exhaustion in those who keep getting them. This virus will ravage people in so many ways given how toxic the spike protein is and how it interacts with cells in the body. I think Luc Montagnier was also correct when he said we will see mass deaths in a few years and it has already begun.
Your words may sound very critical or even harsh, but they depict the reality very correctly. When I learnt sometime ago in these boxes that the vaccine remnants ( spike bits) too can move among people, I too called it the real epidemic now ( in the highly vaccinated countries) rather than the one from the virus.
Thank you so very much for this very important exchange of information. For a free working paper entitled "The COVID-19 Pandemic and Its Continuing Impacts: Applying Common Sense, Along with Scientific Understanding of the Nature of the Virus and the Approaches Taken", email me at pgordon@rcn.com . Also see
Thank you! I will be emailing you a copy of the working paper on "The COVID-19 Pandemic and Its Continuing Impacts: Applying Common Sense, Along with Scientific Understanding of the Nature of the Virus and the Approaches Taken". I think the paper is a good complement to yesterday's exchange. Medicine involves both art and science, including experience, wisdom, knowledge, expertise, compassion, humanity, and common sense. Rob Rennebohm and Shankara Chetty embody these attributes as do you and Geert Vanden Bossche. You all set examples that all those in medicine can learn from and aspire to. Thanks again for the contributions the four of you are making to spreading rare insight into what we have been through and are continuing to go through since early 2020. Paula D. Gordon, Ph.D. pgordon@rcn.com
Can you please email the paper to me : balakrishnan@gmail.com Also I am curious. Are you in a position to undertake/organise drug-virus interaction studies ? If so, I can share some thoughts, which can be very relevant to the conversations we have been having for long in these podcasts. Thanks
I would really like to express my gratitude for the insightful content you've been sharing, and for bringing together great minds that can help us make sense of it all.
Your discussions, along with Geert Vanden Bossche's hypotheses, have sparked meaningful conversations among my friends and me. However, we find ourselves at a crossroads regarding COVID-19 management and would greatly appreciate your expertise.
The dilemma we face is two-fold:
1) There is substantial data suggesting that repeated COVID-19 infections increase the risk of Long Covid and can lead to cardiovascular, brain, and multi-organ damage.
2) Conversely, Geert's perspective seems to imply the necessity of constant exposure to train our innate immune system, which I believe is also influenced by vaccination status.
Given these points, would you consider organising a video to discuss practical steps people should take moving forward? In my case, I received two doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine early in the pandemic but opted out of boosters due to diminishing evidence of their efficacy.
I tested positive for COVID-19 about two weeks ago. While my acute symptoms were mild and managed effectively with NAC, my positive test persisted for 12 days. Does this experience contribute to 'immune training,' or has the response been overshadowed by the AstraZeneca vaccine's effects?
Many, like myself, are grappling with the best course of action. Should we aim to avoid exposure and - for example - continue masking, or is some level of exposure advisable despite the quite drastic recent mutations?
Your insights on this matter would be invaluable, and I feel that a video addressing these concerns would greatly benefit the community.
Thank you very much for considering this request. Your guidance and expertise are greatly appreciated.
I hope and believe that between your AZ vaccines nearly 3 years ago and your first ( is it ?) Covid infection now, you havenāt had any major, sudden and unexplained health issues. Then you are perfectly ok and you can be normal with your daily routine. Your exposure and the resultant natural immunity now are much more āpureā, not ācontaminatedā by vaccine remnants or effects. They have disappeared since long. You are going to be fine. If you do get any respiratory symptoms, even mild, seek common medications. Donāt leave it unattended. If you donāt feel normal anytime, meet your doctor and brief him about your old vaccination and recent infection. How old are you ? Hope NAC is N-Acetyl cystine. I am from India, an organic chemist by background, not a physician. I have commented extensively in these podcasts on the protocols used in India, a country that used AZ vaccine almost 100% and after some borrowing experiences until about mid 2021, medicinally ( early treatments) bottled up this virus with old school medicines and hasnāt looked back ever since.
Thank you, again, for an interesting panel discussion. It is comforting to know there is a group of highly capable and committed professionals that is dedicated to do good.
This latest discussion about Dr. vandenBosscheās hypotheses might well be the most interesting I watched in the last three years. And believe me; I watched a lot of videos.
The scenario of viral shift towards higher virulence is a doomsday scenario. Whereas I am glad to read - for example in the comments of Janis, but also in a video from dr. Raszek that was shared by Dr. vdBās on his own website - that there are possible alternative outcomes (for instance: immune tolerance) I do think the ādoomsdayā scenario should be taken seriously.
In classical risk management probability x impact determines the priority of mitigation measures. Needless to say that the impact of the doomsday scenario is of biblical proportions. Needless to say that I therefore believe that especially the biggest opponents of vdBās hypotheseses should stand up and join panel discussions, like yours, to at the very least transparently evaluate previous policy and hopefully help determine public health policy moving forward.
In this discussion it seems there will be a different āriskā for highly vaccinated as opposed to vaccinated individuals. Unclear to me is why there is a difference and what the definition of highly vaccinated is.
Furthermore, as I am not very hopeful that the mitigation efforts discussed in the video will be globally implemented, I wonder what could be done on āindividualā basis.
Personally I would like to understand if I, being an employer, could make company policy in order to mitigate riks of severe illness for my employees. For example; would it be helpful to supply natural anti-virals (herbs/vegetables) and supplements (vitamine C/D, zinc) to boost the immune system of my staff? There is no accessibility to drugs like Ivermectin in the Netherlands. I tried to buy some doses in India, but they were seized by customs. Resulting in a former warning...
Why are therapeutics being singularly ignored? Why was the ONLY pathway ever seriously addressed a vaccine? That always seemed to be a highly risky path to take. HIV alone should have shown us that this was highly problematic.
This is the bane of this pandemic, for about 18 months till mid 2021. Then the tables turned for two thirds of humanity, with therapeutics as the singular approach. Another third, the West, with its head buried in sand still, would not see the point and wouldnāt let this virus go from their midst. Still. I repeatedly asked the same questions in mid 2020 in the only medium I had known then, letters to newspapers. No one would respond.
Good discussion that. As usual Dr. Shankara Chetty was the most eloquent and clear - whether it was a medicinal point or a sentimental one ( about physicians world over standing up and together). I wrote two large letters in these few days, each to Washington Post and The Atlantic, which largely reflected the views here. I would very much like people here to read them , but I donāt know how to transfer an email into a posting here. I wrote that it is not fair on the part of the medicinal system (in the USA) not to recognise the fact that two thirds of humanity subdued this virus almost into oblivion with old school medicines, deny the benefits of that huge world scale experience to the elders in the population and keep them under pressure with calls for repetitive vaccinations. I was responding to two laboured articles on how the elders there are skipping the winter Covid shots. It was simple, when the vaccines cannot stop regular reinfections, they are wondering how they can stop serious illness and deaths. No wonder they are backing out. And in the context of his extensive use of doxycycline in the first wave, he was often talking about the tool box, obvious reference to a host of medicines available. It was in June 2021 I wrote to you and a few others that the treatment for this virus was is in the many shelves of a good pharmacy ( from many different indications).
Thanks for sharing, could you next time elaborate with Geert about short life, broadly neutralizing, low affinity antibodies which are conducting the virus to the last step of inmmune escape, are they IgM as Geert said in last interview or are they also IgG4, which generate tolerance to spike protein?. Very interesting work you are doing.
Excellent discussion, thank you for hosting it Dr McMilan!
My sense is that we need an urgent meeting to lay out a possible framework for medical response (ie suggested protocols), communications, guidance for governments, etc, a la Davos but by people concerned with civil liberties, informed consent, and human rights.
Of course the concern by most would likely be āwhat if it doesnāt transpire?ā No one wants to appear to have sided with an extreme position that turns out to not occur. I propose that an urgent meeting can be positioned as a precautionary and conservative preparatory planning session that would be helpful regardless of the outcome of Geertās prediction. Would it have been better to take time to set the stage to provide early guidance to mitigate a colosal tragedy?
Dr. McMilan, would you be willing to raise this question to the ādream teamā, which includes you, Bret Weinstein, Malone, Cole, Kory, Kirsch, Kennedy, McCullough, and many others? This wouldnāt even have to be a public meeting, though that could help for posterity.
Unfortunately Dr. Malone dismissed Dr. Vanden Bossche's concerns in a somewhat defamatory and unscientific way, imo, on the January 3rd FLCCC broadcast (at https://rumble.com/v450n2u-how-public-health-failed-flccc-weekly-update-jan.-03-2024.html?start=3975). I'm hesitant to criticize Dr. Malone because I think he has done much great work and I have no idea what pressures he may be under or what compromises he may feel should be made but it sounded to me like he was basically saying, "I don't want to be associated with anyone who has made predictions which have not come true in the time frame predicted because then people will think I make mistakes as well." In any case due to his popularity I think his remarks will result in less scientific discussion of what Dr. Vanden Bossche is saying and less people preparing for what Dr. Vanden Bossche believes will happen, which I think is very unfortunate and Dr. Malone will have blood on his hands if Dr. Vanden Bossche's expectation does in fact come to pass. My guess is that Dr. McMillan has already asked Dr. Malone to appear with Dr. Vanden Bossche on his podcast to discuss the situation and Dr. Malone refused. I think we need to ask the other people you mentioned where they stand on this issue, plus Dr. Byram Bridle who is a vaccinologist.
Dr. Malone may have cognitive dissonance because he himself has been injected and so of course he does not want to think about Geert's speculations being correct. Just something to keep in mind.
Sick with greed? He knew the consequences, and did nothing to stop the vaccines until the evidence was too obvious. He knew the lipid nano particles allowed mRNA to cross the blood-brain barrier. Pressure on him? He is a person without conscience. A person without the benefit of feeling guilt can be very dangerous to society particularly when he is a doctor. Mengele comes to mind.
I have respect for what Malone did as a scientist. I certainly used the techniques he developed when I was in the field. However, he lost ALL credibility with me when he started supporting Republican fascist and racist rhetoric with abandon. I am concerned that he has another agenda - one I consider to be seditious and dangerous.
It is very unfortunate that those who are voicing legitimate scientific concerns regarding the management of the pandemic in the US also appear to be heavily associated with fascist political movement in our country. This is delegitimizing a sane and analytical discussion in on ANYTHING COVID-related in the United States. This is particularly true of the scientific and medical community.
Thanks for your interesting comment, which resonates with me a bit but not that much. I do believe Dr. Malone has political ambitions, which I have no problem with, and he does seem to pander somewhat to evangelical Christians and groups like the John Birch Society which I think was racist in the past, Iām not sure where they are today, but in general I like his anti-establishment politics (but not his silence on certain issues like U.S. support of Israel) and am not aware of any comments he has made which I would consider to be racist or fascistic (heās certainly a strong supporter of Florida Surgeon General Joseph Ladapo). Can you give any examples of positions of his you consider to be racist or fascistic?
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Loved this discussion. I loved what Dr. Rennebohm saidā¦. We need critical thinking, courage and compassion, which you all have had. I would add another: Christ. He is our Help and Shield. Praising the LORD for youā¦. āFor such a time as this.ā Must keep persevering.
Even if the virus now turns its attention to more virulence, having reached its maximum capability in infectiousness, as Dr Geert opines, the Omicrons cannot get more virulent than delta for example. Once the clinical understanding was gained, by mid 2021, even the ferocious delta was quickly contained with the likes of Ivermectins, HCQs, Azithromycins, Montelukasts, Levocetrizines etc. They have been the mainstay against the Omicrons so far also. There is no reason why they canāt subdue future variants of any virulence. Contrary to the view that they cannot stop the spread, early use of these medicines in family setting can precisely do that. They can quickly block viral load build up in family individuals to the extent they cannot spread the virus in the household. When this happens in thousands of households, the society is saved from spread. The virus withdraws. On the contrary , people from the West report here how the entire family was caught up with infection from the first member. That is what happens when the recommended early treatment is only acetaminophen with a glass of water.
Thanks For sharing this important Discussion Dr McMillan š
Appreciated
Thank you Dr McMillan for your faithfulness and consistent work during these last 3 years+ .
Your giving platform for Geert and ma y others has been life saving , Lord Bless.
Appreciated.
Enjoyed it. Shared it.
Wonderful
Thank You Dr. McMillan for hosting a very informative, caring, heartfelt podcast for moving humanity forward with highly respected gentlmen in my humble opionion! And BTW, 1 dose of Paxloid killed my healthy companion. How we have gotten away from nature, simple, caring, community evolving systems to systems of consumerism ,destroy, greed is playing out right before our eyes on this living planet we have been asked to take care of.
Thank you for sharing.
A very good, informative little conversations among the few of you.
An outstanding discussion.thank you. Have been digging deep to find ivermectin and antibiotics. Have also had to spend a lot of money to pay for them. I have had a prolonged x 6 weeks, cold, covid, URI. Finally went to GP, seen by a NP, recād doxycycline, improving. Unvaxxed. Autoimmune.
When you wrote "cold, covid, URI" did you mean that you had all three of these or did you mean that you had one of the three but not certain which one? Also, what did you mean when you wrote "Autoimmune"?
I am glad you are improving. It sounds like you have had a rough time.
Dr. Bossche's argument (0:29:20), asserting that under circumstances where a pathogen has reached its peak infectiousness potential, the only evolutionary development, per definition, is increased virulence, aligns with virology textbooks. However, these textbooks do not teach that there is an alternative course of action when the pathogen has reached its peak of infectiousness, and the host has exhausted its limits of resistance. The alternative course of development is immune tolerance.
Immune tolerance is as widespread defence strategy as resistance. Therefore, it does not make sense to exclude tolerizing strategies from potential evolutionary scenarios. However, it should be noted that the trade-off for increased mortality tolerance will be evident in some host fitness parameters such as fecundity, fertility, sterility, etc.
Something that makes me cautious and skeptical about Dr. Bossche's predictions is that he hasn't (to my knowledge) addressed the dramatic IgG4 class switch in people who were mRNA-vaccinated prior to infection. Understanding the cause and implications of that class switch could probably make any predictions much more accurate.
EDIT: As a layperson, I can't really understand the scientific arguments, but I look for "body language" for lack of a better description. Bossche's indifference to the IgG4 mystery is a sign to me that he might have tunnel vision.
Dr.Bossche addressed the issue of IgG4 class switch both in his book and in his articles. Reading his explanation about 2 different causes of this class switch, initial promotion and current disabling effect on SIR, and initial inhibition of APCās uptake of IgG4 opsonized immune complexes and later enhanced uptake will not make it easier for you to find the truth about increased virulence vs tolerance. However, reading his explanations may turn your cautious scepticism into vigilant criticism.
Could that be why we have some viral DNA in our genome?
Only 2% of human DNA is made up of protein-coding genes. The remaining part codes for enzymes, modulates and moderates gene expression, while function of majority part of genome is unknown.
Endogenous viral elements (EVEs) form up to 10% of human genome. But to maintain cell integrity expression of EVEs are silenced. However, while EVEs translation potential is silenced, their regulatory role is not nullified.
There are several studies confirming SC2 RNA can be reverse-transcribed and integrated into human genome. There is no evidence that the SC2 viral elements shall be passed to successive generations in Mendelian manner. But one can hypothesize that long-Covid, for instance, is a manifestation of immune tolerance against the virus when the trade-off for acquired mortality tolerance is loss of mobility and mental clarity.
Dr.Bossche has been all in to no compromise on mortality tolerance. However, it is only natural to argue that in host-pathogen interaction compromise on mortality tolerance can be mutually beneficial. Self-centred gene is more evident than species-centred gene. Therefore, it should rather be asked ā what will be the fitness costs for acquired immune tolerance against SC2 in highly vaccinated? Since it is human population neocortex activation mimics fitness cost compensation within the specie, instead of settled in interspecies manner ā one does not have to be mobile to enjoy mobility; it is sufficient to have a vaccine certificate for enjoying mobility.
We need to stop calling these mRNA shots "vaccines". There never was a vaccine, there is still no vaccine and not one person has ever been vaccinated. These dangerous gene therapy injections were misrepresented and people were sadly misled. Now the clinicians are left to deal with the fall out and sadly many people have and will die needlessly. This is a human tragedy on an epic scale and the true pandemic.
Dr. Vanden Bossche has opined that what he is expecting will be more tragic than the side effects from the shots. If you don't mind me asking, what is your opinion in that regard?
As a virologist and expert in vaccine development and preclinical testing I agree with a lot of what Geert says. This is a grand experiment on a global scale. All the human intervention has done was prolong things and make them far worse. This virus will not behave as expected because of all the human intervention. We have put so much immune selection pressure on it and it will change in unpredictable ways. The injections have skewed the immune response away from what is proper to handle this virus. The injections have caused pathogenic priming, immune tolerance and worse immune exhaustion in those who keep getting them. This virus will ravage people in so many ways given how toxic the spike protein is and how it interacts with cells in the body. I think Luc Montagnier was also correct when he said we will see mass deaths in a few years and it has already begun.
Your words may sound very critical or even harsh, but they depict the reality very correctly. When I learnt sometime ago in these boxes that the vaccine remnants ( spike bits) too can move among people, I too called it the real epidemic now ( in the highly vaccinated countries) rather than the one from the virus.
Thank you so very much for this very important exchange of information. For a free working paper entitled "The COVID-19 Pandemic and Its Continuing Impacts: Applying Common Sense, Along with Scientific Understanding of the Nature of the Virus and the Approaches Taken", email me at pgordon@rcn.com . Also see
https://gordonhumankind.com/national-and-global-health-challenges-the-covid-19-pandemic/ or the pandemic page at https://GordonHumankind.com .
Thank you! I will be emailing you a copy of the working paper on "The COVID-19 Pandemic and Its Continuing Impacts: Applying Common Sense, Along with Scientific Understanding of the Nature of the Virus and the Approaches Taken". I think the paper is a good complement to yesterday's exchange. Medicine involves both art and science, including experience, wisdom, knowledge, expertise, compassion, humanity, and common sense. Rob Rennebohm and Shankara Chetty embody these attributes as do you and Geert Vanden Bossche. You all set examples that all those in medicine can learn from and aspire to. Thanks again for the contributions the four of you are making to spreading rare insight into what we have been through and are continuing to go through since early 2020. Paula D. Gordon, Ph.D. pgordon@rcn.com
Can you please email the paper to me : balakrishnan@gmail.com Also I am curious. Are you in a position to undertake/organise drug-virus interaction studies ? If so, I can share some thoughts, which can be very relevant to the conversations we have been having for long in these podcasts. Thanks
Sorry, it is
balakrishnan.moro@ gmail.com
I would really like to express my gratitude for the insightful content you've been sharing, and for bringing together great minds that can help us make sense of it all.
Your discussions, along with Geert Vanden Bossche's hypotheses, have sparked meaningful conversations among my friends and me. However, we find ourselves at a crossroads regarding COVID-19 management and would greatly appreciate your expertise.
The dilemma we face is two-fold:
1) There is substantial data suggesting that repeated COVID-19 infections increase the risk of Long Covid and can lead to cardiovascular, brain, and multi-organ damage.
2) Conversely, Geert's perspective seems to imply the necessity of constant exposure to train our innate immune system, which I believe is also influenced by vaccination status.
Given these points, would you consider organising a video to discuss practical steps people should take moving forward? In my case, I received two doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine early in the pandemic but opted out of boosters due to diminishing evidence of their efficacy.
I tested positive for COVID-19 about two weeks ago. While my acute symptoms were mild and managed effectively with NAC, my positive test persisted for 12 days. Does this experience contribute to 'immune training,' or has the response been overshadowed by the AstraZeneca vaccine's effects?
Many, like myself, are grappling with the best course of action. Should we aim to avoid exposure and - for example - continue masking, or is some level of exposure advisable despite the quite drastic recent mutations?
Your insights on this matter would be invaluable, and I feel that a video addressing these concerns would greatly benefit the community.
Thank you very much for considering this request. Your guidance and expertise are greatly appreciated.
I hope and believe that between your AZ vaccines nearly 3 years ago and your first ( is it ?) Covid infection now, you havenāt had any major, sudden and unexplained health issues. Then you are perfectly ok and you can be normal with your daily routine. Your exposure and the resultant natural immunity now are much more āpureā, not ācontaminatedā by vaccine remnants or effects. They have disappeared since long. You are going to be fine. If you do get any respiratory symptoms, even mild, seek common medications. Donāt leave it unattended. If you donāt feel normal anytime, meet your doctor and brief him about your old vaccination and recent infection. How old are you ? Hope NAC is N-Acetyl cystine. I am from India, an organic chemist by background, not a physician. I have commented extensively in these podcasts on the protocols used in India, a country that used AZ vaccine almost 100% and after some borrowing experiences until about mid 2021, medicinally ( early treatments) bottled up this virus with old school medicines and hasnāt looked back ever since.
Thank you, again, for an interesting panel discussion. It is comforting to know there is a group of highly capable and committed professionals that is dedicated to do good.
This latest discussion about Dr. vandenBosscheās hypotheses might well be the most interesting I watched in the last three years. And believe me; I watched a lot of videos.
The scenario of viral shift towards higher virulence is a doomsday scenario. Whereas I am glad to read - for example in the comments of Janis, but also in a video from dr. Raszek that was shared by Dr. vdBās on his own website - that there are possible alternative outcomes (for instance: immune tolerance) I do think the ādoomsdayā scenario should be taken seriously.
In classical risk management probability x impact determines the priority of mitigation measures. Needless to say that the impact of the doomsday scenario is of biblical proportions. Needless to say that I therefore believe that especially the biggest opponents of vdBās hypotheseses should stand up and join panel discussions, like yours, to at the very least transparently evaluate previous policy and hopefully help determine public health policy moving forward.
In this discussion it seems there will be a different āriskā for highly vaccinated as opposed to vaccinated individuals. Unclear to me is why there is a difference and what the definition of highly vaccinated is.
Furthermore, as I am not very hopeful that the mitigation efforts discussed in the video will be globally implemented, I wonder what could be done on āindividualā basis.
Personally I would like to understand if I, being an employer, could make company policy in order to mitigate riks of severe illness for my employees. For example; would it be helpful to supply natural anti-virals (herbs/vegetables) and supplements (vitamine C/D, zinc) to boost the immune system of my staff? There is no accessibility to drugs like Ivermectin in the Netherlands. I tried to buy some doses in India, but they were seized by customs. Resulting in a former warning...
Keep up the good work.
Werner
Zinc, Green tea extract and black seed oil all have antiviral properties - especially when used together.
Why are therapeutics being singularly ignored? Why was the ONLY pathway ever seriously addressed a vaccine? That always seemed to be a highly risky path to take. HIV alone should have shown us that this was highly problematic.
This is the bane of this pandemic, for about 18 months till mid 2021. Then the tables turned for two thirds of humanity, with therapeutics as the singular approach. Another third, the West, with its head buried in sand still, would not see the point and wouldnāt let this virus go from their midst. Still. I repeatedly asked the same questions in mid 2020 in the only medium I had known then, letters to newspapers. No one would respond.
Good discussion that. As usual Dr. Shankara Chetty was the most eloquent and clear - whether it was a medicinal point or a sentimental one ( about physicians world over standing up and together). I wrote two large letters in these few days, each to Washington Post and The Atlantic, which largely reflected the views here. I would very much like people here to read them , but I donāt know how to transfer an email into a posting here. I wrote that it is not fair on the part of the medicinal system (in the USA) not to recognise the fact that two thirds of humanity subdued this virus almost into oblivion with old school medicines, deny the benefits of that huge world scale experience to the elders in the population and keep them under pressure with calls for repetitive vaccinations. I was responding to two laboured articles on how the elders there are skipping the winter Covid shots. It was simple, when the vaccines cannot stop regular reinfections, they are wondering how they can stop serious illness and deaths. No wonder they are backing out. And in the context of his extensive use of doxycycline in the first wave, he was often talking about the tool box, obvious reference to a host of medicines available. It was in June 2021 I wrote to you and a few others that the treatment for this virus was is in the many shelves of a good pharmacy ( from many different indications).
Thanks for sharing, could you next time elaborate with Geert about short life, broadly neutralizing, low affinity antibodies which are conducting the virus to the last step of inmmune escape, are they IgM as Geert said in last interview or are they also IgG4, which generate tolerance to spike protein?. Very interesting work you are doing.
Excellent discussion, thank you for hosting it Dr McMilan!
My sense is that we need an urgent meeting to lay out a possible framework for medical response (ie suggested protocols), communications, guidance for governments, etc, a la Davos but by people concerned with civil liberties, informed consent, and human rights.
Of course the concern by most would likely be āwhat if it doesnāt transpire?ā No one wants to appear to have sided with an extreme position that turns out to not occur. I propose that an urgent meeting can be positioned as a precautionary and conservative preparatory planning session that would be helpful regardless of the outcome of Geertās prediction. Would it have been better to take time to set the stage to provide early guidance to mitigate a colosal tragedy?
Dr. McMilan, would you be willing to raise this question to the ādream teamā, which includes you, Bret Weinstein, Malone, Cole, Kory, Kirsch, Kennedy, McCullough, and many others? This wouldnāt even have to be a public meeting, though that could help for posterity.
Unfortunately Dr. Malone dismissed Dr. Vanden Bossche's concerns in a somewhat defamatory and unscientific way, imo, on the January 3rd FLCCC broadcast (at https://rumble.com/v450n2u-how-public-health-failed-flccc-weekly-update-jan.-03-2024.html?start=3975). I'm hesitant to criticize Dr. Malone because I think he has done much great work and I have no idea what pressures he may be under or what compromises he may feel should be made but it sounded to me like he was basically saying, "I don't want to be associated with anyone who has made predictions which have not come true in the time frame predicted because then people will think I make mistakes as well." In any case due to his popularity I think his remarks will result in less scientific discussion of what Dr. Vanden Bossche is saying and less people preparing for what Dr. Vanden Bossche believes will happen, which I think is very unfortunate and Dr. Malone will have blood on his hands if Dr. Vanden Bossche's expectation does in fact come to pass. My guess is that Dr. McMillan has already asked Dr. Malone to appear with Dr. Vanden Bossche on his podcast to discuss the situation and Dr. Malone refused. I think we need to ask the other people you mentioned where they stand on this issue, plus Dr. Byram Bridle who is a vaccinologist.
Dr. Malone may have cognitive dissonance because he himself has been injected and so of course he does not want to think about Geert's speculations being correct. Just something to keep in mind.
Sick with greed? He knew the consequences, and did nothing to stop the vaccines until the evidence was too obvious. He knew the lipid nano particles allowed mRNA to cross the blood-brain barrier. Pressure on him? He is a person without conscience. A person without the benefit of feeling guilt can be very dangerous to society particularly when he is a doctor. Mengele comes to mind.
I have respect for what Malone did as a scientist. I certainly used the techniques he developed when I was in the field. However, he lost ALL credibility with me when he started supporting Republican fascist and racist rhetoric with abandon. I am concerned that he has another agenda - one I consider to be seditious and dangerous.
It is very unfortunate that those who are voicing legitimate scientific concerns regarding the management of the pandemic in the US also appear to be heavily associated with fascist political movement in our country. This is delegitimizing a sane and analytical discussion in on ANYTHING COVID-related in the United States. This is particularly true of the scientific and medical community.
Thanks for your interesting comment, which resonates with me a bit but not that much. I do believe Dr. Malone has political ambitions, which I have no problem with, and he does seem to pander somewhat to evangelical Christians and groups like the John Birch Society which I think was racist in the past, Iām not sure where they are today, but in general I like his anti-establishment politics (but not his silence on certain issues like U.S. support of Israel) and am not aware of any comments he has made which I would consider to be racist or fascistic (heās certainly a strong supporter of Florida Surgeon General Joseph Ladapo). Can you give any examples of positions of his you consider to be racist or fascistic?
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Loved this discussion. I loved what Dr. Rennebohm saidā¦. We need critical thinking, courage and compassion, which you all have had. I would add another: Christ. He is our Help and Shield. Praising the LORD for youā¦. āFor such a time as this.ā Must keep persevering.
Even if the virus now turns its attention to more virulence, having reached its maximum capability in infectiousness, as Dr Geert opines, the Omicrons cannot get more virulent than delta for example. Once the clinical understanding was gained, by mid 2021, even the ferocious delta was quickly contained with the likes of Ivermectins, HCQs, Azithromycins, Montelukasts, Levocetrizines etc. They have been the mainstay against the Omicrons so far also. There is no reason why they canāt subdue future variants of any virulence. Contrary to the view that they cannot stop the spread, early use of these medicines in family setting can precisely do that. They can quickly block viral load build up in family individuals to the extent they cannot spread the virus in the household. When this happens in thousands of households, the society is saved from spread. The virus withdraws. On the contrary , people from the West report here how the entire family was caught up with infection from the first member. That is what happens when the recommended early treatment is only acetaminophen with a glass of water.